After posting my memoir about finding my inner prep, it felt like a good idea to follow it up with a piece I’ve been working on about Brooks Brothers, one of the original Ivy League purveyors. This has been many months in the making because I’ve been waiting for the company – through their Canadian PR agency – to answer some of my questions as well as give me permission to photograph their large new Toronto store. Seeing as the answers and permissions are not forthcoming…
Things are kind of complicated between me and Brooks Brothers. On the one hand, I love their story, their tradition and what they used to stand for. On the other, I am always dismayed by how trendy and un-Brooks Brothers much of their offerings are. A fair amount of my wardrobe staples, especially shirts and pants, are from Brooks Brothers, but whenever I shop there I complain to the staff about how far the company has strayed from its roots. I look disapprovingly at their latest catalogues yet type all this while wearing a Brooks Brothers polo shirt.
Subterranean man den – Brooks Brothers press photo by JJ Thompson.
Entering the menswear department of the massive Brooks Brothers at 110 Bloor Street West means having to go through the main floor woman’s department. As you move down the escalators to the basement, you are surrounded by photos and advertisements hearkening back to Brooks Brothers’ long and storied history. Sadly, however, these seem more like old-timey decorations in a themed suburban pub than a true honouring of the past. This is not the past, as clearly stated in the store layout: Brooks Brothers used to be purely a men’s store. Now the men’s clothing is relegated to the basement. Like a discount section.
Why does it get to me? Why does the state of Brooks Brothers bother me far more than any other retailer? Well, we’re always most critical of the ones we love, aren’t we? Love is perhaps too strong a word, but I feel a strong affinity for Brooks Brothers, especially what they used to stand for: quality, good taste and reasonable prices. As G. Bruce Boyer wrote in his 1985 book on classic menswear Elegance, “In its role as a tasteful innovator, Brooks is perhaps the greatest single influence on American menswear.” And what innovators they were: Brooks Brothers introduced the button-down collar to retail shirts, reversed the angle of British regimental stripes to create the repp tie, brought Fair Isle sweaters from a tiny Scottish island to the American masses, even introduced madras and seersucker fabrics to the world of fine menswear.
The Brooks Brothers sack suit, from a 1942 advertisement.
But possibly their greatest influence in menswear was the sack suit (which they cemented as an American classic along with J. Press, the other great Ivy League outfitter). Again, Boyer: “The line, whether for jackets or shirts, is freer flowing, more natural and loosely cut, than European clothing, which is generally more shaped and contoured. A Brooks jacket is often said to be not felt on the body, since it falls easily from the shoulders and has as little padding as a jacket can have and still have a constructed appearance. This look solidified in the 1940s, and Brooks has stuck with it and promoted it through all the ups and downs of masculine fashion trends…”
So what happened? Why is Brooks no longer the bastion of conservative American dress? How did they succumb to those ups and downs? In short, the Brooks family sold the company, which was then sold to a British retailer and eventually, an Italian fashion conglomerate. We have the current owners to thank for bringing Brooks Brothers back from the brink (although they were greatly helped by the recent upswing in menswear interest.) But I think they have done little, other than the posters on the walls, to honour the history of the company.
I am not a lone voice in the wilderness: visit almost any trad or prep men’s style forum and you will find pages and pages of diatribes on how far Brooks Brothers has fallen. But I think Christian Chensvold, editor of Ivy Style, said it best in reacting to a new Brooks Brothers madras jacket that had some of the hallmarks of the traditional model: “I don’t know what’s more frustrating: that Brooks merchandisers chose double vents to deliberately break with the American tradition, or that they’re locked in such a Continental mindset when it comes to tailored clothing they don’t even realize it’s a break with American tradition.”
I too have examples that get under my skin. You cannot find, in any of the three Toronto locations of Brooks Brothers, their most iconic shirt in all fits and colours: the oxford cloth button down. There’s plenty of formaldehyde-soaked non-iron versions, but I had to order my shirt online. And don’t even bother asking the staff about the sack suit – which I do almost every time to perplexed expressions. The “1818 Sack Blazer” is the closest thing in the modern catalogue to the old classic, but falls well short of the mark, quite literally: the jacket needs to be a few inches longer, have its button lowered and lose some of the shaping.
The contemporary sack blazer.
This all had me wondering, when I recently interviewed Bruce Boyer on the 30th anniversary of his book, that perhaps today’s Brooks Brothers is more a simulation of the past than a continuation? “It’s probably worse than that,” Boyer told me. “Today, Brooks Brothers seems to be a low-rent Italian department store. Brooks was never a high-priced store. It prided itself , and made it’s reputation, on being good quality at a fair price, which along with conservative understated taste appealed to The Eastern Establishment. Today I’m not sure to whom Brooks appeals.”
The sad truth is that while some people are newly interested in heritage, tradition and authenticity, they also want to look modern and trendy. Brooks Brothers is just responding to the market. And that’s what really gets to me about the store: its change is symbolic of our society’s shift away from quality and tradition. This former stronghold of classic menswear seems more and more like so many other retailers, following trends instead of upholding its own vision. That said, I absolutely love and really, really want these new madras-style Bermuda shorts.
I sympathize with your frustration, but Brooks Brothers is trying to appeal to the most consumers they can, while still marketing themselves as sellers of classic clothing. The real, classic ivy silhouette is not available at Brooks Brothers because almost no one is asking for that type of fit anymore. Nowadays, you have to go to an independent retailer like J.Press or O’Connells to get a real sack suit. But BB is looking more at J.Crew, Ralph Lauren and higher end men’s retailers as their competition. And those folks are even further removed from the ivy traditions than Brooks Brothers.
Your article on Brooks Brothers was written a couple of years ago, but I only read it recently. Your site is very good and the only blog that focusses on the Canadian menswear scene. But, I find it interesting that you should speak about Brooks Brothers as though it has existed in Canada for a long time. It has not, and the iconic influences that Brooks Brothers exerted in the United States never became a significant part of menswear in Canada.
I began university in the late 1960s [which dates me], and the “ivy league” style influence [such as it was in Canada] was on it’s last legs. However, when I began university blue jeans were not ubiquitous, and some even wore ties to classes. I attended a beautiful campus with most of the buildings of grey limestone in various traditional and modern architectural styles, and many of the photographs in the book “Take Ivy” could be from the university that I attended. By the time I finished law school some time later, everything had changed – the peace movement, blue jeans, etc. were firmly dominant. When I began university, it was a requirement to wear a tie and jacket, and skirts for women, to dinner at the University residences. There were numerous semi-formal dinner/dances throughout the winter season. Before I finished university this was changed utterly, never to return. But it was not based on Ivy League/Brooks Brothers influence.
But to get back to Brooks Brothers, the traditional sack suit was worn seldom, or hardly at all in Canada, and the major Canadian suit makers were more influenced by British styling than by American influences. Button down shirts were, however, very common in the 1960s and were the dominant casual style, but not with suits. My father went to a custom tailor, and never wore a button down shirt in his life.
So, brooks brothers may have become not very different from other major department stores, but I can’t spend much time pining for what they might’ve been at one time in the United States.
I have always had an interest in good menswear and I i’m happy to see your excellent some coverage of the Canadian scene.
Brooks Bros has basically totally lost it. It even sells suits and jackets that are too small, the current trend. how stupid does that look?
I buy a lot of things from ebay and thrift stores. New old stock stuff, Viyella shirts, navy blazers, tweed jackets, suits, cashmere sweaters, etc.
I just looked at 1000 shirts on ebay from Brooks, and only a few are the real cut and oxford cloth. The rest I could buy at Lands End etc.
I’ll never buy new at Brooks Bros again. I remember in college when you could still get the oxford and it only had a six button front. No buttons on sleeve plackets. No fused collar. Great stripes. Etc. No slim fit. No no-iron fabric. Nothing pre-washed. No tiny button down collars as in Ralph.
I have not been in a Brooks store in years. Salvation Army still carries what I want: the real thing.
After reading this article I can only laugh while at the same time be perplexed. The problem the author has with Brooks Brothers has nothing to do with the company as a whole but, rather the way in which consumers like him buy verse how those who purchase goods from Brooks Brothers currently. The mindset that companies should continue to manufactured goods for nostalgic reasons rather than for profitable reason is just preposterous and absurd!
Why would Brooks Brooks continue to manufacturer sack suits double-breasted Blazers and whatever else is deemed to be Ivy League centric ( keep in mind graduated from Ivy League school) when the those who actually purchase such items are at best opportunist shoppers, bargain hunters, or “decade shoppers” as one sales representative at Brooks Brothers told me.
The days of companies manufacturing Goods in mass quantities only to later discount those are baby faster than the sack suit itself. Can you still get a quality made three buttons acts of War double-breasted blazer from Brooks Brothers? Sure can however, you will have to have to made in their MTM program which mean it will cost you more to retain the so-called ivy league look.
As far as the fit of their clothes it is just another example of not doing proper research. If my memory serves me correctly there are four fits that Brooks Brothers has. Madison: which is the more traditional and boxy look but still has darts, Fitzgerald: which is a more modern American style fit that is similar to the ones that JFK wore, Regent: which is an English inspired fit that has more padding in the shoulder and side vents, and the Milano: which is a Italian style fit that is very trim. Additionally, those same ” fit” names are also carried over to their shirts as well.
So you see you can still have your love affair with Brooks Brothers if this is what you so choose to do. However, it will cost you a little more time and money. The sad truth of the matter is the old supply and demand is still king in fashion. Meaning, if the old ” ivy league look” was selling off the shelves then you would have more to pick from. Retailer like Brooks Brothers I continue to still offer the same quality goods just in a more modern interpretation. As said before I believe BB still can make you what you are looking for however, you have to be willing to spend the time and money to get it.
ReplyJoseph GiarraputoNovember 28, 2016 at 3:37 pm
Recent (November 2016) news from the Brooks Brothers front: 100% of the shirts under $100 are non-iron. I wonder if 100% of the people who buy them pull them out of the clothes dryer, put them on and go to the office – I doubt it. They have eliminated the four cuts of suits that went from boxy to Peewee Herman. There are now two styles that seem to be in the middle of the previous four. Quality? Several weeks ago, I bought a suit for around $1,000. I was measured for alterations and returned 10 days later. The paint’s waste did not fit, the lapel looked like I was wearing a bathrobe and the back was far from smooth. The suit was re-altered. I returned several days later. The jacket still didn’t fit properly. The tailor, with the salesman nodding in agreement, said the problem was my shoulder blade! I’ve had the shoulder blade for awhile and it never caused a problem with the fit of suit jackets. the problem was the suit – poor quality. I told them I didn’t want the suit and they credited my Brooks Brothers account. Unfortunately, I had already paid a portion of the bill that included this suit. They would not give me cash so I have to go back to Brooks Brothers again to spend that money. I’ll probably buy a lot of socks which they can’t screw up too much.
This is very funny, mens tailoring relies on a good eye, you need a decent cutter but these are more rare than a needle in a haystack. Two choices, first give up on classic menswear (I’m not just saying this to be facetious but genuinely think its too expensive, difficult and time consuming these days to dress well in classic style due to the rarity of quality stylish clothing available off the rack as well as the old breed of skilled tailors either dead or on their way out.. just check one of the bespoke threads of a mens clothing forum to see the disasters contained within). Second choice is to gather together requisite funds then go see a genuinely good cutter and get exactly what you want albeit at an eye watering cost.
In the UK at least we have a department store called Marks and Spencer which does reasonably priced clothes in traditional style. The suits are all fused, made in cheap factories but it has an honest fair priced quality about it. By the way this was the British retailer which bought Brooks and made a mess of it before selling it on! GL. You’ll need it buying menswear these days 😉
Thank you for your comment, Anand, but I must respectfully disagree. Cost and selection are not huge barriers to dressing well or finding quality, but rather our priorities. Obviously this does not apply to those in desperate circumstances but most of us in the middle class, with the right amount of time and investment, can build a quality wardrobe. Yes, larger chain stores no longer carry true quality across their entire range, but there are plenty of independent shops, both physical and online, that offer an excellent selection. “Reasonable price” is relative but I fear when people say it, they mean the cheapest possible. And “cheap” and “quality” simply don’t go together.
Great post. Here’s a question for someone hoping to do a shopping spree in the next couple of months — where would you go as someone who loved what Brooks Brothers was selling a couple of decades ago?
Thanks for the kind words, Mike. Unfortunately, there isn’t one single store I’ve found that replicates what BB used to be, in terms of selection, quality and price. On my recent visit to New York, I could imagine pulling together some classic Ivy items by shopping at J. Press, Paul Stuart and Kamakura. If you head over to Cambridge, MS, there’s The Andover Shop which I’ve never visited but looks like Ivy heaven. In Buffalo, O’Connell’s comes highly recommended, while if you’re in England, Cordings is the place to go. Best of luck, let me know if you have any success.
Times have changed. Styles have changed. Brooks Bros. will not survive by only appealing to the styles sought after by 65+ year-old men who are retired and no longer buying work clothes anyway. When I started working, we wore suits every day. Today, jeans are allowed 5 days/week, watches are no longer worn (cell phones display time), and the keyboard has replaced the ink pen. No-iron shirts save time, as one has yet to create the 25th hour. For those in my generation, these are changes. For those in their 20s and 30s, this is how things have always been. Brooks Bros. will adapt to the needs/wants of the current market, or they will go the way of Sears, Eastern Airlines, Woolworth’s, Pan Am, Standard Oil…
I agree and disagree. Things have changed, that’s true, but they did so – radically – in the first several decades of the 20th century. But at that time, Brooks was more concerned with quality and setting the standard of American dress than simply pleasing shareholders. And chasing trends and fashions is a guaranteed way to go the way of J. Crew, Abercrombie & Fitch and other “heritage” brands that provide little heritage. I am certainly not asking for a return to nothing but sack suits; I’d just like to see a return to quality and American style. Plus, most guys in their 60s and older only wear jeans and tshirts anyway. It’s the younger guys who like to wear suits 🙂
The BB store at West Edmonton Mall is absolutely deplorable. The clothes there are ratty, dusty pieces that no one wants. I was astounded that they would allow their historical name and image to be used in such a way.
13 Comments
Joe Crangle
July 31, 2015 at 11:50 am
Pedro Mendes
July 31, 2015 at 12:46 pm
Bryce
September 12, 2017 at 9:23 am
John Desmond
January 9, 2016 at 11:09 am
Sua Sponte
June 14, 2016 at 9:48 pm
Joseph Giarraputo
November 28, 2016 at 3:37 pm
Anand
December 4, 2016 at 3:00 pm
Pedro Mendes
December 5, 2016 at 10:09 am
Mike
May 14, 2017 at 10:38 pm
Pedro Mendes
May 15, 2017 at 10:15 am
Gregg West
July 2, 2017 at 9:26 am
Pedro Mendes
July 4, 2017 at 4:42 pm
Joe Zasada
December 30, 2017 at 12:36 am
I sympathize with your frustration, but Brooks Brothers is trying to appeal to the most consumers they can, while still marketing themselves as sellers of classic clothing. The real, classic ivy silhouette is not available at Brooks Brothers because almost no one is asking for that type of fit anymore. Nowadays, you have to go to an independent retailer like J.Press or O’Connells to get a real sack suit. But BB is looking more at J.Crew, Ralph Lauren and higher end men’s retailers as their competition. And those folks are even further removed from the ivy traditions than Brooks Brothers.
I completely agree with you, Joe, but that’s exactly why BB lost their way, in my opinion.
Hello –
Your article on Brooks Brothers was written a couple of years ago, but I only read it recently. Your site is very good and the only blog that focusses on the Canadian menswear scene. But, I find it interesting that you should speak about Brooks Brothers as though it has existed in Canada for a long time. It has not, and the iconic influences that Brooks Brothers exerted in the United States never became a significant part of menswear in Canada.
I began university in the late 1960s [which dates me], and the “ivy league” style influence [such as it was in Canada] was on it’s last legs. However, when I began university blue jeans were not ubiquitous, and some even wore ties to classes. I attended a beautiful campus with most of the buildings of grey limestone in various traditional and modern architectural styles, and many of the photographs in the book “Take Ivy” could be from the university that I attended. By the time I finished law school some time later, everything had changed – the peace movement, blue jeans, etc. were firmly dominant. When I began university, it was a requirement to wear a tie and jacket, and skirts for women, to dinner at the University residences. There were numerous semi-formal dinner/dances throughout the winter season. Before I finished university this was changed utterly, never to return. But it was not based on Ivy League/Brooks Brothers influence.
But to get back to Brooks Brothers, the traditional sack suit was worn seldom, or hardly at all in Canada, and the major Canadian suit makers were more influenced by British styling than by American influences. Button down shirts were, however, very common in the 1960s and were the dominant casual style, but not with suits. My father went to a custom tailor, and never wore a button down shirt in his life.
So, brooks brothers may have become not very different from other major department stores, but I can’t spend much time pining for what they might’ve been at one time in the United States.
I have always had an interest in good menswear and I i’m happy to see your excellent some coverage of the Canadian scene.
Bryce
Brooks Bros has basically totally lost it. It even sells suits and jackets that are too small, the current trend. how stupid does that look?
I buy a lot of things from ebay and thrift stores. New old stock stuff, Viyella shirts, navy blazers, tweed jackets, suits, cashmere sweaters, etc.
I just looked at 1000 shirts on ebay from Brooks, and only a few are the real cut and oxford cloth. The rest I could buy at Lands End etc.
I’ll never buy new at Brooks Bros again. I remember in college when you could still get the oxford and it only had a six button front. No buttons on sleeve plackets. No fused collar. Great stripes. Etc. No slim fit. No no-iron fabric. Nothing pre-washed. No tiny button down collars as in Ralph.
I have not been in a Brooks store in years. Salvation Army still carries what I want: the real thing.
After reading this article I can only laugh while at the same time be perplexed. The problem the author has with Brooks Brothers has nothing to do with the company as a whole but, rather the way in which consumers like him buy verse how those who purchase goods from Brooks Brothers currently. The mindset that companies should continue to manufactured goods for nostalgic reasons rather than for profitable reason is just preposterous and absurd!
Why would Brooks Brooks continue to manufacturer sack suits double-breasted Blazers and whatever else is deemed to be Ivy League centric ( keep in mind graduated from Ivy League school) when the those who actually purchase such items are at best opportunist shoppers, bargain hunters, or “decade shoppers” as one sales representative at Brooks Brothers told me.
The days of companies manufacturing Goods in mass quantities only to later discount those are baby faster than the sack suit itself. Can you still get a quality made three buttons acts of War double-breasted blazer from Brooks Brothers? Sure can however, you will have to have to made in their MTM program which mean it will cost you more to retain the so-called ivy league look.
As far as the fit of their clothes it is just another example of not doing proper research. If my memory serves me correctly there are four fits that Brooks Brothers has. Madison: which is the more traditional and boxy look but still has darts, Fitzgerald: which is a more modern American style fit that is similar to the ones that JFK wore, Regent: which is an English inspired fit that has more padding in the shoulder and side vents, and the Milano: which is a Italian style fit that is very trim. Additionally, those same ” fit” names are also carried over to their shirts as well.
So you see you can still have your love affair with Brooks Brothers if this is what you so choose to do. However, it will cost you a little more time and money. The sad truth of the matter is the old supply and demand is still king in fashion. Meaning, if the old ” ivy league look” was selling off the shelves then you would have more to pick from. Retailer like Brooks Brothers I continue to still offer the same quality goods just in a more modern interpretation. As said before I believe BB still can make you what you are looking for however, you have to be willing to spend the time and money to get it.
Recent (November 2016) news from the Brooks Brothers front: 100% of the shirts under $100 are non-iron. I wonder if 100% of the people who buy them pull them out of the clothes dryer, put them on and go to the office – I doubt it. They have eliminated the four cuts of suits that went from boxy to Peewee Herman. There are now two styles that seem to be in the middle of the previous four. Quality? Several weeks ago, I bought a suit for around $1,000. I was measured for alterations and returned 10 days later. The paint’s waste did not fit, the lapel looked like I was wearing a bathrobe and the back was far from smooth. The suit was re-altered. I returned several days later. The jacket still didn’t fit properly. The tailor, with the salesman nodding in agreement, said the problem was my shoulder blade! I’ve had the shoulder blade for awhile and it never caused a problem with the fit of suit jackets. the problem was the suit – poor quality. I told them I didn’t want the suit and they credited my Brooks Brothers account. Unfortunately, I had already paid a portion of the bill that included this suit. They would not give me cash so I have to go back to Brooks Brothers again to spend that money. I’ll probably buy a lot of socks which they can’t screw up too much.
This is very funny, mens tailoring relies on a good eye, you need a decent cutter but these are more rare than a needle in a haystack. Two choices, first give up on classic menswear (I’m not just saying this to be facetious but genuinely think its too expensive, difficult and time consuming these days to dress well in classic style due to the rarity of quality stylish clothing available off the rack as well as the old breed of skilled tailors either dead or on their way out.. just check one of the bespoke threads of a mens clothing forum to see the disasters contained within). Second choice is to gather together requisite funds then go see a genuinely good cutter and get exactly what you want albeit at an eye watering cost.
In the UK at least we have a department store called Marks and Spencer which does reasonably priced clothes in traditional style. The suits are all fused, made in cheap factories but it has an honest fair priced quality about it. By the way this was the British retailer which bought Brooks and made a mess of it before selling it on! GL. You’ll need it buying menswear these days 😉
Thank you for your comment, Anand, but I must respectfully disagree. Cost and selection are not huge barriers to dressing well or finding quality, but rather our priorities. Obviously this does not apply to those in desperate circumstances but most of us in the middle class, with the right amount of time and investment, can build a quality wardrobe. Yes, larger chain stores no longer carry true quality across their entire range, but there are plenty of independent shops, both physical and online, that offer an excellent selection. “Reasonable price” is relative but I fear when people say it, they mean the cheapest possible. And “cheap” and “quality” simply don’t go together.
Great post. Here’s a question for someone hoping to do a shopping spree in the next couple of months — where would you go as someone who loved what Brooks Brothers was selling a couple of decades ago?
Thanks for the kind words, Mike. Unfortunately, there isn’t one single store I’ve found that replicates what BB used to be, in terms of selection, quality and price. On my recent visit to New York, I could imagine pulling together some classic Ivy items by shopping at J. Press, Paul Stuart and Kamakura. If you head over to Cambridge, MS, there’s The Andover Shop which I’ve never visited but looks like Ivy heaven. In Buffalo, O’Connell’s comes highly recommended, while if you’re in England, Cordings is the place to go. Best of luck, let me know if you have any success.
Times have changed. Styles have changed. Brooks Bros. will not survive by only appealing to the styles sought after by 65+ year-old men who are retired and no longer buying work clothes anyway. When I started working, we wore suits every day. Today, jeans are allowed 5 days/week, watches are no longer worn (cell phones display time), and the keyboard has replaced the ink pen. No-iron shirts save time, as one has yet to create the 25th hour. For those in my generation, these are changes. For those in their 20s and 30s, this is how things have always been. Brooks Bros. will adapt to the needs/wants of the current market, or they will go the way of Sears, Eastern Airlines, Woolworth’s, Pan Am, Standard Oil…
I agree and disagree. Things have changed, that’s true, but they did so – radically – in the first several decades of the 20th century. But at that time, Brooks was more concerned with quality and setting the standard of American dress than simply pleasing shareholders. And chasing trends and fashions is a guaranteed way to go the way of J. Crew, Abercrombie & Fitch and other “heritage” brands that provide little heritage. I am certainly not asking for a return to nothing but sack suits; I’d just like to see a return to quality and American style. Plus, most guys in their 60s and older only wear jeans and tshirts anyway. It’s the younger guys who like to wear suits 🙂
The BB store at West Edmonton Mall is absolutely deplorable. The clothes there are ratty, dusty pieces that no one wants. I was astounded that they would allow their historical name and image to be used in such a way.